#6 - Character Code: Transitions, Purpose, and Success

Gary (00:01) everybody. My name's Gary LeBlanc and I'm here with Andrew part. Hey Andrew. AP (00:06) Gary, thanks for having me. Love these. Gary (00:09) Last time you said again. And I said, it's like the MMA episodes. And I fumbled around with mixed Marshall. And anyway, so this is like the MMA episode, but for character. So it's, uh, it's our second episode, the first one, we kind of broached it. And this time, this is an exciting time. This time we're going to start introducing some frameworks that people can use pretty much right away. And we're going to talk about transitions. And, you know, I titled it Mastering Purpose and Success because the way we analyze transitions is by first making purpose a little less ambiguous and then making success less ambiguous. Because really when we talk about transitions, oftentimes, as you'll see, it's one of those arms, one of those nodes where we have the issue. But things are always so ambiguous. Like, honestly, if you're going through a transition, how do you make a decision? It's so difficult to make a decision without breaking it down into really what's important. And that's what we're going to dig into today. Does that float your boat there? Big Andrew. AP (01:14) Yep, I'll allow you to create the structure. But one thing that I think a lot of people that are coming to us are actually going through transitions. There's two types of transitions that I see. One are these sort of major light transitions. We're whatever, graduating high school, going to college, getting a job, losing a job, a breakup, things like that. And then there's another type of transition where it feels like almost like a black swan event. life is happening to you in a very uncontrollable way, right? Let's just say like an accident or a death of a close one, et cetera. Both of these things, both of these transitions offer a ton of uncertainty. And that's what's difficult to navigate because they're really stirring, well, shaking the snow globe. Everything changes overnight and sort of in a minute. So the things that we'll talk about, Gary (02:07) Mm-hmm. AP (02:11) right now, and I think I'll set you up for this, Gary, is these transitions that we're sort of engineering in our life, and how do we make the right decision in those moments of uncertainty? Gary (02:15) Mm-hmm. You said a couple of things I didn't think about actually. And one of them was you mentioned black swan event. So you kind of qualified it transitions that you're anticipating and driving and transitions that you're almost a victim to and not really driving. Right? So that's a pretty big nuance and it'll be, it'll help shape a bit of our conversation. And the other part of it is when you're talking about these black swan events. really, it's going to be interesting because everything changes. You know, your whole image of purpose changes. And when we dig into it, like your motivation changes for doing certain things, that's really the big difference with these black swan events. Your motivations change almost immediately. What you value, what you're focused on almost changes immediately. You know, I bring it up a few times with you, but when you had your stroke in your twenties, everything changed. Everything changed. That was a massive protracted transition because it wasn't something that happened immediately. The stroke was, but you unraveling what that created in your mind motivationally, um, that was a protracted journey. So I think it'd be interesting maybe when the time is right, you know, you can maybe, uh, dig into that as an example. I'd love to hear you, you know, unspool that, um, because I think it'll be really interesting. AP (03:50) Okay, great. Yeah. When the time is right after you sort of set up the framework, then we'll get into it. Gary (03:55) Yeah, perfect. Okay. So, okay, this is gonna be something that's a lot easier visually, but I'm gonna try to be expressive and paint the picture. So, everybody talks about purpose. I just wanna say one thing about purpose really quick, Andrew, and you can kind of add some color if you want. But, you know, if you look at it from a Buddhist perspective or you look at... AP (04:12) Please. Gary (04:21) from an Eckhart Tolle perspective or anything, really the power of now, right? Being present, right? We always aspire to be present, which almost, it almost makes us feel judged or guilty if we're looking to the future, right? So you shouldn't be looking to the future. You should be focused on what's happening today. But... I like to plan for things in the future. It makes me feel good. It doesn't mean I'm attached to it, but just getting jazzed about something coming, it provides value for me. So I don't wanna not have these anticipatory things happening in my life, such as having a baby, right? So this is one little caveat, because when we talk about purpose, purpose almost implies a future looking. a future looking perspective, right? What's my purpose? You know, you're not talking about what your purpose is right now, typically. You're talking about what your purpose should be, something you're working towards. And I don't think this is a bad thing. Some people bastardize the word and don't think it's worthwhile, but I think purpose provides almost that anticipatory motivation to just keep you a little jazzed about things, right? And I think... When you believe that this is where you want to go, I think there's a lot of power there. So that's how we're gonna approach it. We're gonna approach it in what purpose gives us versus this attachment to something needing to be a certain way. Does that make sense? AP (05:55) Yeah, I just want to comment on one thing. The thing with the anticipatory events, I think these are in our biological, physiological sense, I think we've always been programmed for that because we've needed to know, we needed to read the environment, we've needed to react and respond to the environment, right? So we can be present, but we also have this insane complex capacity to go future, past, et cetera. And so I like these, what you shared with this, anticipatory events. Ideally, in a place of transition, maybe we don't know what those things are, right? Because something changes, right? We don't know the landscape. And then the other thing with what you talked about with presence and purpose, it's just because of our biology and physiology and where we are sort of coming from as animals. Gary (06:27) Mm-hmm. AP (06:53) presence can also include sort of this blue sky that you talked about this sort of daydreaming, taking the taking the environment and making it huge, right? So it really allows us to see on a macro level, maybe what's going on and what's interesting, and then directionally, we can move from there. Gary (06:58) Mm-hmm. Exactly. You know, it's a great point. You can think about the future now. It doesn't mean you're getting anxious about it. And I think that's, it's almost like the difference between compassion and empathy, you know, um, compassion is empty in action. So when we're thinking about the future in these events, we're thinking about them, but in a very objective way, right? And I think that's really the beauty of it in a very objective way. We're not getting attached to the feeling. it gives us, you know, the anxiety that it could provide, which obviously is not a great thing. So these are nuances, but they're kind of cool nuances. So, okay, let's dig into it. So we're trying to understand transitions. Okay. So we're basing this on two major signposts on purpose. And then once we assess, are we living our purpose or where our life is in terms of purpose, then we're going to look at success. It's that two steps, right? Are we going in the right direction? And what does it look like when we get to where we're going? So I love that analogy because it's almost like a vector, right? Purpose is the amplitude of the vector, how effective you are, efficient. And success is really the direction. Are you ending up where you want it to go? So we're getting into purpose first. So purpose is based on in our model, it's based on three main nodes. Okay. It's based on skill. So, you know, we're implying that you need to have a certain amount of skill for something to be your purpose. You can't be, you know, you can't be, um, constantly anxious about not being able to evolve in that area. So you got to have some sort of skill and you got to theoretically be growing that. The other note is challenge, right? How challenged are you? If something's boring, you know, if you're playing basketball against a team that's never even seen a basketball, it's not really gonna be that fun to play basketball, right? So you need a certain challenge. Things can't be easy, because you're gonna get that disease and you'll end up getting depressed. And then the third note is passion. So passion can be a lot of things, you know, how jazzed you are, it's that feeling. It's that feeling that you really enjoy what you're doing, okay? So these are the nodes, skill, challenge, and passion. So what we do is we kind of assess those. So let's first say, okay, let's take myself really quickly. So skill in what I'm doing, I'd like to think I'm like between an eight and a nine. You know, I spend a lot of time in my vocation. and I take it very seriously. So for skill, I don't see any gaps. Um, doesn't mean I'm not evolving and growing, but it's not really a, you know, a huge focus of me trying to figure out, am I living my purpose challenge? You know what? I'm probably again at an eight or a nine, but it's almost over flexed. So challenge might even be a 10 right now because it's almost uncomfortable. You know, it's, you know, we're going to talk about over under flexed in another episode, but That's kind of how challenges for me. So it's a problem, but on the other side potentially. And then the last one is passion. Again, I'm super jazzed. I'm super jazzed about what I'm doing. So that again is about an eight or nine. So when I look at my purpose and I take the average of those, I could safely say that I'm comfortably doing things that I'm passionate about, that I'm evolving skill wise and that challenged me. So what that means is when you talk about transitions, That's not necessarily what I need to be focusing my time on. That's not necessarily something that I have to start to deconstruct and work on. Um, and that's where we're going to hit the success triangle next, but so that's my, that's my kind of assessment of purpose in my life. AP (11:11) Gary, take us back to one of these sliding door moments where everything sort of shattered in your life and then what that triangle looked like then. And then maybe we can just have some contrast because right now obviously you're on purpose, but what did it look like in a time in your life where you weren't? Gary (11:27) Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, again, this is such an old trope. I think I say that a million times, but you know, back in a corporate life and a more, a more conventional career, you know, passion, I really didn't have any passion. I was doing the same thing over and over again. So passion for me, it was like a two and it really resulted in, you know, depression is a strong word, maybe just malaise, just blah. So I was at about a two. especially near the end of my corporate career and skill. I was, you know, objectively, I did well, so I was well placed. I was good at what I did. Um, and challenge, well, it really wasn't challenging anymore. So challenge was like a three. So I was strong in skill, maybe an inner nine, but challenge was like a three, you know, and passion was a two. So I had obvious gaps there. Like I really wasn't living my purpose. So that's the, that's the contrast between. My life now is entrepreneur, which is sometimes disastrous mentally, but, um, but at least it's not this constant drone that I can't do anything about. I'm working towards something where the other time I was working essentially towards nothing, but more of the same. AP (12:47) I love that. That contrast is great. So if someone's listening to this and someone can relate, then we begin to see sort of this aggregate score of skill, challenge and passion. And then let's take us into success. Gary (13:04) Yeah. So we'll talk about success and then, and then I want to dig into, I want to come back to purpose and to success and dig into the arms. Like what do these combinations feel like? So let me just give a bit of context with success first. So success has three nodes of the triangle. Okay. You have purpose. So you took your score, your assessment of purpose from the top triangle and you bring that down to success. So that's one node. The other node is financial stability. So that's obvious. If you can't pay the bills, if you're struggling and stressed on where the next meal is going to come from, that can't be success. That is a disproportionate amount of noise. That's really going to, uh, well, you're obviously going to suffer. Your potential is going to be incredibly limited. And then the other node is balance. So family health, all of these things that you find value in, but are essentially in this moment. potentially not prioritizing. And a lot of times this is about priority, especially balance. So now we look at success. So we have purpose, we have financial stability, and we have balance. So let me give a quick example here. So purpose, I already did the score, right? It was like eight and a half, eight and a half, and 10. So let's say it's a nine. So purpose is a nine, I brought that from the top. Financial stability, again, this is a feeling. Right? This isn't, you know, we can't give you this framework of 20 different metrics on how to measure financial stability. It's a feeling. You kind of know if you feel financially stable or not. So for me, yeah, I have a lot of financial stability. I have built, you know, something such that I can take a hit and I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if I was worried about, let's say, paying the bills, quote unquote. But I'm incredibly not comfortable with how... with where I'm at, with how I monetize everything we're doing. So for me, financial stability would be like a three or a four, you know, it's a source of disease for me. I don't feel good about it. And then balance for me, I have pretty good balance, but the reason I say I have pretty good balance because I love doing what I'm doing. So if I'm working at night, for me, that's kind of like entertainment, some of this stuff. Um, I do spend a lot of time with Casey, we're having a little baby. So that's super important. knock on wood, it's tip top. Like there's some sacred cows, there's some non discretionary and health and all that. Those are non discretionary. Right? So my balance is probably, you know, I would say an eight or nine. It's funny, you should have someone else do your triangles for you as well, by the way, Casey would probably say my balance is a four, right? It's actually super interesting. People who love you and know you very well. It'll help you calibrate all of this assessment and everybody's like, Oh, this is tech. It's not technical. Trust me, it's not technical. You need a little bit of granularity and objectivity to really understand these things. So success, purpose, financial stability, and balance. Now you asked me for my old example, so I gave where I'm at now. So my old life would have been, purpose would have been super low, right? Like I was like a four on average on purpose, right? Financial stability was like a nine. I had nothing to worry about. And then balance was probably a nine, two, right? Like I didn't work from home. I didn't work on the weekends. It was, it was great. So I had nine, and then I had this four for purpose. So now you add those and it's about 7.33 on average. Well, it's exactly 7.33. So I had a 7.33 in success. So overall it looked pretty good, but I had this gaping hole in purpose. So. If our goal is to be like a nine on success, and I have a gap of like seven to a nine, a gap of almost two, that's like, well, where's that gap coming from? Oh, it's coming from purpose. Okay, well, where's the gap in my purpose? Oh, the gap in my purpose is I had no challenge and I had no passion for it. Okay, well, let's dig into each of those. How am I gonna bridge those gaps? So that's how we use it. And trust me, when you're going through transitions, Oftentimes it's a transition where you're trying to decide these major changes in your life, like your life's direction. And for me, you know, it's just so helpful to break it down objectively. AP (17:40) I mean, I had the exact same sort of scores, etc., from a previous life when I was about to go through that transition to where I am now. And this, for me, is almost the starting point with anyone in doing what they're doing, and whether this is a small transition or a big transition. So I really love this tool, and I think it's worth taking five minutes or less, maybe even two minutes to go through this as each quarter or, you know. Gary (18:09) Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I think it's phases and seasons in life. Right, I think we have to look at it that way. You know, maybe even look at it like a spring cleaning. Like once a year, look at it like a spring cleaning. Like take an account of everything in your life. So maybe once a year, you really get into it, you spend some time thinking about it. Really, what we're trying to always do is we're trying to internalize these thought processes so they become unconscious, right? AP (18:09) whenever you're sort of feeling lost. Mm-hmm. Gary (18:38) We're trying to ingrain how we see the world such that we're constantly calibrating. Our intuition is so powerful, but we have to weaponize that intuition. And I find when we do things like this, we weaponize that intuition. I always use weaponize. I can't think of a more benign, friendly word than weaponize. So if we look at how often you wanna sharpen the saw, okay, well, maybe I'm not doing the whole assessment every quarter, but maybe I'm just thinking about it. So... You know, once a quarter, I'll just think about it. Well, nothing's really changed. Okay. Well, where's my gap? Where's the action plan? You know, I like to break things down in nudges, like knowing a gap and not doing anything about it or not planning any changes, there's no value there. So I think everybody has their process, but accountability has to be there. And if you're going to hold yourself accountable, you got to hold yourself accountable often enough that you'll be able to course correct. So that looks different for everybody. You know, I, um, you know, I look at it every month as far as what am I doing? What did I actually complete? What do I want to complete? So each progressive distance is just a deeper dive. AP (19:55) Awesome. I have nothing to add on that. Gary (19:57) Oh, I'll take out that pause. Yeah, usually I should like give you a little heads up. Okay, perfect. So now, when we look at, you know, how we maintain that model, okay, we have the model, we've maintained the model, we're keeping it up to date. I think what we have to really start on you in the moment, you know, as far as everybody has their own way of approaching these things. And you know, I subscribe to having visual models. So that's how I think. And it helps me frame my thoughts. But in the end, what we're trying to do is we're trying to make these things less ambiguous. So there's less anxiety around it. We want to be able to create a situation where we feel like we have more agency. Because in the end, you have to believe, well, I personally think that, you have to believe that the direction you're going is something that's gonna serve you, is something that's gonna nourish you in the short, medium, and long term. And if you're playing the long game, making a little mistake early, you know, you were a golf pro, Andrew, making a little mistake early creates a huge gap in the future. So I think everybody listening to it, You know, I can't stress enough how insanely important it is to get the direction right. Like at least spend some time really kicking the tires on it. It's like my friend Tiz McNamara wrote a song and I think there's one line that goes, what's the point of running if you're running backwards? Like it's such a great line because that's what we are. You know, we're striving for productivity and efficiency, which is in the end bullshit if you're going in the wrong direction. You know, what's the point of being efficient at sucking, you know, because you're not doing something you want to do. So anyway, I think that's what we have to frame up for people as far as how important that is. AP (22:05) One thing I do want to add, because I get this a lot, you know, especially when you're doing something that you have high skill and a challenge is actually quite high, such as athletics or really being in the arena, right, being an entrepreneur, etc. It literally feels like life or death. Maybe not all the time, but a lot, right? So you have the skill, the challenge is very high, it's probably, like you said, a 10. What I see that sort of fades or actually has a cycle potentially is this passion, this excitement for what you're doing, right? So I meet a lot of people, they come to me like, hey, you know, I'm very, very close, but I don't, I don't care anymore. Something shifted in their life. And that can be a part and to be honest, I think this is a positive thing. Because then we start to take agency of like, okay, well, what is really how did this begin? Like what were you really excited about? When you first started this journey? Gary (22:39) Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. AP (23:05) doing what you do, how you spend your time, right? Because oftentimes we get away from that and we're focusing on other noise, comparison, traditional success models, how other people are thinking about us, et cetera, right? So they almost go from, and they, meaning me, I also went through this a lot. So you go through this period of not believing it's worth it, right? What am I doing with this? Gary (23:13) Yeah. Thanks for watching! Yeah. AP (23:33) So I think when we get to this moment, I think it's important to sort of look back and see like, what is real? What am I actually basing my passion and excitement about? So then when you talk about the nudges, we can then optimize for those nudges instead of oftentimes it is the noise. So hey, bring awareness to the noise. It's this. And then how do we direct it back to the passion things are really sort of fueling us. Gary (23:41) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I love that. You know, it's, we mentioned before about life happens in seasons, you know, and in Canada, we're lucky enough to have the four seasons. I relish four seasons, but even if you're in a place without seasons, there's cycles. You know, you're in Costa Rica, there's a rainy season, there's cycles. The earth is, is cycling. I think it's a very natural thing. So to your point, we're always at different stages in our life. And I mentioned in, in balance, well, sometimes you want life to be imbalanced. Sometimes you're doubling down on really over flexing something knowingly because you think you need to for whatever reason. So it really is contextual. And I find we have to pay, well, I would almost say more attention to the context because it informs what's happening on the inside. How has your environment changed? Right? Like, How has your relationships with your family changed? Your partner, your friends, how's your health changed? Right? All of these things, how connected are you with a greater purpose and service to others? Like all these things, when you start to pay attention, you start to notice, wow, this is really not shaping up in the way that I think is gonna serve me going forward. Well, that's you kind of encoding that. And, you know, it's this beautiful, I talked to Zach about this, it's this beautiful interplay. between your outside environment and your internal environment, your consciousness, that all of them provide clues. So I love the fact that you mentioned seasons and cycles, and we're all going through these different stages and the nudges will evolve based on how we're feeling about these different stages we're at. AP (25:46) something comes up, right? Sort of like you, it's like the passion isn't there. Basically, if one of these things isn't there, we can work with it. If two of these things aren't there, it's almost impossible, right? So, yes, exactly. So you can put a little thing under one of the legs, but if both of the legs are at a two or a three, it's impossible to sort of, without rebuilding the table. So I would say like, Gary (25:57) Mm-hmm. It's like a table. Yeah. AP (26:16) Hey, if you're here on purpose and your passion and potentially the challenges is lower, it doesn't mean you need to quit whatever you're doing. It's saying, hey, how do I directionally do the things that I enjoy doing in this process? And then how potentially could I do some things that are a little more challenging? Add some bravery in there, take a step, take a leap, we would say. So I get these questions a lot. It's like, okay. Gary (26:33) Mm-hmm. AP (26:44) I'm miserable doing what I'm doing, right? So we don't need to just throw the baby out with the bath water. It's like, let's really take a look at this. Go ahead. Gary (26:50) Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. No, no, that makes a ton of sense. It's like, look, I tell people all the time, it's literally about you making the decision, you having the intention to change something. The minute you notice, it's really all about awareness. Like, you know, in the end, it all gets back to the same stuff. It's about being aware and intending to change that situation, intending to change that state. That's really when I believe you win. Am I satisfied with my state right now? I should be, but I'm not, but I should be. And I know that I'm doing things to get me to where I want to be. Um, and that's really what matters. You win when you intend to change and you do something. So it really is about the process. I was listening to something the other day and they said the opposite. That it doesn't matter as long as you get the results. I don't, I don't believe that. Like that honestly implies that nothing matters. except these infinitesimally small nodes of achievement and result. Like that makes absolutely no sense to me. How can you, you know. AP (28:00) Well, you can't build something on that because it's like, okay, how'd you get there? So if and when something fails, which it almost always does, how do you rebuild it? One thing I wanna jump on is like you mentioned your state. Should I feel like, I should feel different than I am. So two things that I wanna connect to. One is thinking about the future. We think the future is gonna feel a certain way. Like we're internally predicting. Gary (28:13) Yeah. AP (28:27) that I'll feel a certain way, whatever. You said you're having a baby. I didn't even know how it was gonna feel and I really didn't. As with everything that I've experienced in my life, I actually don't know how it feels in the future. I think it can be okay to imagine what it will feel in the future. But if we're always trying to think about state as like I always need to feel activated, I actually disagree with that completely. Gary (28:55) Mm-hmm. AP (28:55) I'm picking on sort of pop culture and Tony Robbins without doing any of his programs, just because he talks about state and sort of activating your state, I think is important. But I think the key is just being able to be with where you are. So actually, how is my state going inside and feeling it? And from feeling it, it changes instantly. Gary (29:08) I think it's just being able to be where you are. So actually, how is my state going inside and feeling? And I'm feeling that it's changing this, but we're so learning of how things feel. AP (29:23) but we're so avoidant of how things feel. Where actually it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean I'm going in this loop of depression or whatever, but you know, I have two kids under three. They have the most joy and then they completely break down and lose their minds. But they only lose it for like a minute or two. And then it's like nothing happened because they're fully feeling what's going on to their body. So this is something that Gary (29:39) is under, they have the most joy, and then they break down. But they only lose it for like a minute or two, and then it's like nothing happens. Yeah, yeah. Because they're totally, really. AP (29:53) When we talk about state, it's like, okay, I'm feeling whatever anxious about everything because there's so much going on. And if I just feel that it changes instantly, I become present, you know, in that moment. Gary (30:02) And if I just feel that, it's the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a, yeah. No, no, I get it. Like it gets back to noticing, gets back to being mindful, right? Being attuned. You know, I think Eckhart Tolle said, you know, anyway, I'm gonna ruin this. It doesn't have to be a quote, but he essentially implied that the most important thing in life, AP (30:08) and then you can rest. Gary (30:31) was to be connected to who you are in that moment. Like that is the most important thing in life, to be aware of who you are and be connected. And I truly do believe that because there's such a chasm between that reality and my reality that is definitely something that I have to put more time focus on, right? It doesn't look, again, we said this before, there's no dangerous of us becoming the Buddha in a week. There's a danger of us having these minuscule steps towards that. So I love that. And I love when you talked about feeling, when we look at these two triangles, right? Just getting back to the visual purpose and success. Really it's the combinations of these nodes. So looking at purpose, challenge, skill, passion, it's the combination of those, of each one of these pairs that kind of inform that feeling, right? Like when you have, when you have focus, right? Focus is when you're doing the right things, you know? That's the feeling. You're feeling focused because your passion is there, your skill is there, so you know, you're super focused on it. And then, you know, some other times you're gonna feel very driven, you know? You're passionate. and it's so challenging and you're really driven. That's how that feels, right? And then if you're doing something, you have skill and it's a perfect amount of challenge, like a video game, you're in flow. You don't even notice time go by. Like these all feel very different. And to your point before, you mentioned being activated. We don't have to always be in flow. Like we're not designed to always be in flow. We're designed to be in flow and then be able to calibrate and rejuvenate and rebuild and course correct, you know? So... When you look at each of these triangles, the nodes are kind of where you're going to see the gaps, but it's the connection of these nodes that inform how they feel. And it'll give you a little bit of a sense of being more honest with how you assess these. And in success, it's quite similar, right? So in success, we have those three nodes, right? Financial, balance, and we have purpose. And it's the connection between these nodes, right? So, you know, if we're... If we're financially there and we're balanced, we're accomplished, right? And if we're, you know, aligned, then we have purpose and we're in balance, you know, like, so all these things, alignment, accomplishment, comfort, you know, having all of your needs met, like that's how those things feel. And it informs again, those feelings of if you're successful or not, and you can maybe connect with those. AP (33:23) The thing that comes up with me is, you know, I think it's almost a trap in a way that if you never feel successful, you'll always be chasing something, right? And there's a double edged sword because you can accomplish materially in the world so much. But also, I think you miss some things. You miss the experience of being, right? So I think we have, I mean, certainly I had this sort of like imprint of survival. growing up, right? Like I was, I was pretty good at what I was doing, and would never arrive. So even when I did arrive, quote unquote, arrived, like achieve things beyond what I even thought was possible, I still felt empty. Right? And, and this is why, you know, you can keep chasing the thing, but you'll never feel okay with yourself. And I, I feel like that's dangerous. It's not the direction where I'm trying to go right now. Gary (34:00) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. AP (34:22) in my life because for me, I'm just looking to be present with all experiences. And like you said, sort of connect, be able to connect to the moment because I feel like the moment can inform me greater than even my vision or my... And because the vision can be clouded, right? So this is sort of connecting back to this moment in time and how we're feeling. Can we be true? And can we really feel the things even if they don't feel true? Gary (34:22) Mm-hmm. because it doesn't keep problems. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I agree with you. Like, look, everything can be over flexed, right? So you don't want to be at either end of that barbell, right? You don't want to only be focused on today, not even thinking, almost ignoring, um, you know, the future and vice versa. Right. And I think the nuance is really in each person's definition of success. Right. Like those nodes, that's our definition. of success. You know, some people have a singular pursuit of money, which again, that story has been written a million times. That's, that's not going to make you feel happy. Success is an inside game. Success is a feeling, right? Um, when you're worried about the material, it's obviously an ego game versus intrinsic value. And you know, the ego is on the outside. The ego is what people are validating. The ego is what needs to be fed. And that's very, it's, it's a very external thing. And internal is that intrinsic value and really success for us. And I'm speaking for you, Andrew, to success is a feeling, right? You can't lie to yourself. You can't lie and say, well, I'm successful, but you feel like shit. Like, how's that success? So I think everybody knows it. It's almost like that dark secret. You know what I mean? It's like you got there and you feel like shit and you're empty and, and you're like, oh yeah, but nobody's going to know, you know, I'll just keep it to myself. You know, I'm going to pretend I'm successful and I'm loving this, but really I'm super unhappy. Like I, I just don't get it. I get it. And I don't get it. Sometimes I feel like a loser. Sometimes, you know, I feel like fuck Gary. Like I'm surrounded by all these people who have financial success. And I was kind of one of those people. And then, you know, I took a big risk and it was a big opportunity cost. And I'm jazzed about what I'm doing, but sometimes I feel like I should be further along and there's constant judgment and all that. But you know what? I sometimes juxtapose that against how I felt before. And the honest truth is I feel more successful now because I just feel fuller now. You know what I mean? It's like, it's an inside thing. I can be alone now. You know, it's so funny. It's so funny. Actually, I'll shut up soon, Andrew. It's so funny. But in my old life, I was quite an extrovert. And I really did need that validation from others. Like I could be in a condo, I could be in a cabin in the woods for a month. Now I'd miss Casey and Luna and Emma, but I could. I'd be like a pig in shit. Like I love that. I love the quiet, I love writing, I love all this stuff. That wasn't me before. So it's so funny, it's so funny how you just have to witness your behavior and it'll tell you really how successful you are. Because you can almost be with yourself. That makes sense. AP (37:49) perfectly. Yeah, I feel I feel that for me is also the same. Like, I'll just use it sort of like, now's the time, Gary, pre stroke versus post stroke. And then there was obviously transitions beyond that. But pre stroke, high skill, high challenge, high passion. And if I didn't achieve the thing, I was like, trying to sprint, but I was like sprinting through barbed wire and like high grass and forest and like I had a machete and it was pretty sharp. But it was like Gary (38:00) Oh yeah, good one, good one. Mm-hmm. AP (38:19) Like I get a cut and just keep going, right? So there was like this high, high burnout. Like I was literally burning all my fuel all the time. Right, could never relax, could never, I was like always thinking about it, always doing it, practicing training all the time. I had a stroke and we can talk about how later, it doesn't matter, but right side of my body goes paralyzed. I'm in the elevator texting with my left hand because the right side of my body, I can't speak, et cetera. Gary (38:37) Mm-hmm. AP (38:49) And in that moment, I actually felt peace for maybe the first time in that part of my life. It's like, I don't have to fucking try anymore. Gary (38:55) Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great excuse. Yeah. AP (39:00) It's gone. It's gone. Thank God. And and it's so weird because I was choosing something right. But I wasn't I didn't feel good. I didn't like myself. I really didn't like myself. Not because I was a bad person or anything, but just because like I didn't Yeah, I didn't like being with myself. Gary (39:05) Mmm. That's weird. Mm-hmm. No, no, I get it. Yeah. AP (39:27) And so after this, this sort of question came up because I was like, oh, you know, I don't know if I'll ever be able to play again. And I thought my whole life was about this, you know, pursuing this excellence. And now it's potentially gone. And that's sort of how I was looking at it. I was like, well, what am I? Or who am I? Or, you know, this sort of version of this question. And there wasn't really an answer. And I asked this Gary (39:38) Hmm AP (39:53) for, you know, I was in the hospital in St. Mike's in Toronto for a week. I'm just like, I had a lot of time alone. I'm just like, who am I? What am I if I'm not this, if I'm not this thing? You know? And it was sort of spaciousness, like I actually felt spaciousness. And so I still, you know, yeah. And I asked myself that question. I'm not looking for an answer, but I'm like, what is coming through in that moment? Long story short, there was two. Gary (40:02) Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was pure possibility, yeah. AP (40:21) there was two things, one of the doctor was like, I don't think you'll be able to sort of do what you've been doing at the level you've been doing. And then the other thing was I was just so, I started to regain feeling back in my right side and I just felt so grateful to just be alive. So I had, I was just like, wow, what a reset. Like I was, I had this like instantaneous feeling of peace. Gary (40:39) Yeah, yeah, yeah. AP (40:49) And then this sort of, I could recreate anything in my life in this moment. Um, and so I was like a little bit of the, like, fuck you to the doctor. I'm like, you don't know, you don't know who I am or what's possible. Combined with an infinite amount of gratitude for just being alive, let alone being able to try to play professional golf again. So this was sort of the fuel, the motivation instantly changed overnight. Sort of what you talked about in the beginning of the episode. Gary (40:58) Mm-hmm. started to feel the out of weight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's exactly, it's exactly what we talked about. And you know, it's so funny. I never stroke, but you know what? I kind of did have a stroke. You know, it's so funny that the before and after is almost the exact same, even though I did not have a stroke, but It was almost like a stroke because I was so connected to my old life that it was almost like a dislocation. Like everything changed when I didn't have that anymore. And when I hear you talking about it, I can definitely relate to how that must have been freeing. You know, sometimes it's kind of like when you're dating someone, I always use these dumb analogies. It's almost like you want to break up with someone and you can't because you're a coward. And, um, and you create a situation where it's like, okay, that's it. You know, you kind of manufacture this step change to create conflict. And it's so funny that for me and my old life, it, it took almost that cause I just didn't have the courage. Like I was so wired to be risk averse that I almost needed a stroke to be able to even move down that road. And I'm telling you, dude, when you, when you tell your story, Um, I can see how you think it's a gift in a lot of ways, because I know how your motivation changed overnight. I didn't know you back then, but I know who you are now and, you know, I can connect with who you were then well enough that, um, that it kind of colors it for me, but yeah, I can see that dude. It's, um, it's a, it's a really weird, eerie bedfellow when you needed the worst. Right? Steven Kobera said. AP (43:02) Mm-hmm. Gary (43:04) You got to love the bomb. You got to love that, which you feared the most because it's going to provide the biggest gift in your life. And his, um, his dad and his two brothers died in a plane crash. So you can imagine, um, but that's a powerful thing. Love the bomb. And I'm telling you, you talk about mindset. I just gotta remind myself all the time, all the time, all the time, love the bomb, love the bomb, love the bomb, stop complaining because, um, I'm such a bitch sometimes, you know, yeah. AP (43:30) I think we all do. I think, I think. Gary (43:33) You know, I'm talking about a female dog. AP (43:38) I think we all need to, me too, even experiencing truly what felt like a life or death situation. Just to sort of continue that, this fueled me to, for people that are going through or have had that moment of like no one believes in you, you don't even know if it's possible yourself. I was able to play in national championships in the US Open and Canadian Open. play all over the world in the European tour and play in 40 countries, this sort of thing, after that happened. So I know that's not everyone's situation when they get the bond, like it can literally shatter things. But if there is any opportunity, all you need is like a 1% opportunity to be able to go for it. And so that's, if you really believe it. So yeah, I was grateful enough to just have that situation. Gary (44:17) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, if you believe it. Yeah. AP (44:35) And that's it's a gift in kind of like I would go through the same thing today if I knew I was going to get what I got out of that. Gary (44:36) Yeah, yeah. So weird, so weird, man. Like my cousin, Craig, he got progressively blind when he was a kid. He had night blindness. And I was talking to him, I don't know, maybe a few years ago, and he said he wouldn't go back to having sight. And so I don't know, it's so mind boggling, you know, to think that. But I guess if you go back, you're basically giving up everything you have. And yeah, like it's kind of like going back in time, like in the Avengers, you don't know what that other branch is gonna look like. And if you're really grateful for where you're at and you're really intending to be quote unquote, better or evolving, then kind of what else do you want, man? Like life wasn't meant to be easy, right? I think we have this kind of delusion. You know, try going back to the 1920s and 30s. Like I was watching a documentary on Stalin in Russia. I knew a lot about it, but wow, dude, like we just aren't calibrated at all with what suffering looks like, what Dukha looks like. It's more of a mental game for us. And I think that's a gift in general, not to, not to belittle anybody's challenges right now. So, you know, we could talk for days. So we're at, we got to wrap this up. What I was thinking, Andrew, is maybe we leave people with a little nudge. Like I was just thinking, you know, maybe for people, um, the easiest way to just, uh, connect with this is just to think of, you know, in your personal, your professional life, someplace you're in flow, you know, something where you just lose track of time, you love everything you're doing, um, just try to, try to journal on that, try to explain it more, what you love about it, why you're in flow doing that. And maybe think of one to three nudges to kind of have a little bit more of that in your life. And it's just a reflection. You have to, you know, it doesn't have to be a long drawn out system or assessment, but just where am I in flow? What are a few things I could do to maybe feel like that a little more? I think that might be a good nudge to lead people on. AP (46:55) Yeah, I love it. And I feel like flow is sort of this combination of all these things we just talked about today. It's like skill, challenge, passion, finance, and family and relationships, right? So I think we can take these things that already give us flow and see like, hey, maybe I need a little more skill in my relationship. And what's a nudge I can do to sort of bring some awareness there as an example. Gary (47:21) Yeah, yeah, yeah. And every time we say something, we open another rabbit hole. But, you know, I think there's value into looking at as micro and macro flow. So micro flow is, you know, you and the moment, you know, that one hour where you lose time macro flow has cycles, macro flow has seasons. It's appreciating the seasons, the cycles. So not everything has to be, you know, I lost track of time for 16 hours. No, that's not what we're saying. The macro flow is these cycles and making sure you have what looks like functional flow. You know, like how much flow do I want in my life? How much presence do I want? How much immersion do I want? And I think that's the beauty behind maybe looking at as these little journeys in the dance. You know, micro flow is the journeys, these little journeys, and the dance is macro flow. It's like, you know, the cycles and the seasons. So I love that. I'd like to leave it on that. I kind of dig it. We were in flow in this conversation, Andrew. I didn't notice the time till about two minutes ago and it was enjoyable. It was the right amount of challenge skill and I'm jazzed about it. So yeah, that's it. Another episode of Quiet the Noise, Character Code Sessions with Andrew where we talked about transitions. Have a good one, AP (48:41) Thanks, Gary.