Episode Transcript
Gary (01:58)
Welcome to quiet the noise. My name's Gary LeBlanc here again for a character code session with Andrew part. Hey, Andrew.
AP (02:05)
Gary, what's going on? Thanks for having me.
Gary (02:09)
You know, we're continuing this character code journey, a yellow brick road, so to speak. You know, we've touched on humility. We've got into the pillars of character. You know, we're trying to color this as we go along and we focused a lot on the call it pro social characteristics, more the, the ones we all kind of relate to character, but this one we're gonna, we're going to change gears a little bit.
We're going to focus on the quote unquote performance or growth based or more classic areas of growth that we would consider in our character pillars. And really what we're going to focus on today is performance. And we're going to leave this as a vague word because it really is vague, but performance, what does that mean? How do you view performance? And we're going to try to break it down into its components.
really leveraging character and how character factors into performance. And I'm super pumped about this because there's so many kind of keystone concepts that are all part of performance. And anyway, it shaped how I see it. And I know that's where you focus your time, Andrew.
AP (03:28)
Yeah, I'm excited to get into it. I love your perspective, so let's jam.
Gary (03:33)
Okay, okay. So look, this is a work in progress here as far as defining performance, but I'm going to start actually at the end of my notes where I kind of said, okay, what is it fundamentally? Well, fundamentally when you want to perform, right, you want to get from A to B, right? So you want to get from this energy state to that energy state. Performing means,
that you're quote unquote succeeding, right? You're growing, succeeding, whatever, in whatever you're choosing to spend your time on. It could be a scholastic pursuit, it could be sports, it could be career, whatever. You're trying to get from energy state A to energy state B, right? So what I was thinking, and we're gonna back into this, and I didn't talk to you about this before, but okay, well this reminds me of a chemical reaction.
Right? So activation energy, it looks like a little bit of a hump, right? You got to put in more energy to get over that hump. But then when you settle, the energy state is lower than what that hump you had to get over was. Similar to static friction, right? You need more force to get rolling than to maintain that new energy state, let's say. And in a chemical reaction, you often need a catalyst.
a catalyst to give you that extra energy, right? That extra potential to get over that hump and get to where you want to go. So I love this metaphor because it really feels like what performance is, right? We want to get to these two energy states, but we also have to understand what are these catalysts in this as well? What are those kind of one time energy injections we're going to have to do to kind of get things rolling?
So I would love to look at it once we put all these components together in those terms. And really what I'm getting at is that catalyst is often bravery, right? That catalyst is often, you know what, we've done all the work, but the catalyst is we got to lean in now to really perform. We got to lean in. We got to, we got to choose to fight that dragon. You know, all that practice was the practice to get us to this new energy state, but the bravery is going to get us over that hump. And.
Anyway, that's where I'd like to end up, but let's just start to color kind of the character traits involved in performing. Okay. So, so you and I were talking, right. And you and I were talking and we were saying, okay, what's performance? Okay. Well, performance self mastery is the most off, you know, the most often referred to trait as far as someone performing and self mastery, the way we define it.
AP (06:11)
Beautiful. I love that.
Gary (06:30)
is skill. So that's obvious. You know, so let's say it's an archery competition, getting better at shooting your bow, right? The other one was awareness. So aware of how you are contextually in the environment, how you are aware of yourself, you know, what you're dealing with that constant almost proprioception, be it emotionally, mentally, whatever, you got to know where you're at. And the other one was composure. It's almost like the biathlon. You ever watched the biathlon? It's so cool.
AP (06:59)
Love it.
Gary (07:00)
because they'll be doing their cross -country skiing, right? And then their heart rate, these guys aren't like, these guys aren't flapjacks, you know, these are typically Norwegians going 50 miles an hour, not 50, but you know what I mean? They're trucking, they're trucking. And then they gotta get down and they gotta set up with a rifle. So there's no better example of needing composure in that moment for what self -mastery is.
AP (07:02)
Cross country skin.
Gary (07:29)
in total, skill, awareness of where they're at, and composure. So that's what we define as self -mastery. And that would be the most obvious anchor component of performance. Is that a good place to start?
AP (07:44)
Yeah, I think it's a great place to start. Keep going, keep going, you're on a roll.
Gary (07:48)
Okay. Okay. So we have self mastery. Okay. So now you say, okay, skill awareness, composure. Okay. These are all the classic things for me to be good at what I'm doing. Okay. But that doesn't really imply that I'm necessarily going to learn like skill. Okay. I want to upskill, but what do I need to upskill? Like there are components to that. Right. And curiosity is really the obvious one.
You know, as far as skill, being curious, starting to listen, starting to have a better sense of what's possible in what you're doing. Right. So if you're not curious, if you're not curious, then you're kind of limited into what you think self mastery looks like or what it looks like to perform. So I see curiosity as constantly expanding the area of possibility.
in what performance could look like. So it's almost like it's shaping the potential of what performance could be. So we have self -mastery. And then while we're working on that, we're constantly a little more curious. We're constantly readjusting that game board. So for me, and when we look at the character traits, what's super key in there is if you have this self -mastery and you're curious enough,
Well, then what's that going to provide you? And we always talk about those vectors and that now you're going to be able to be effective at what you're doing. Right. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going in the right direction. OK, so the self mastery component awareness does imply that you know where you're going, but this is a direction based on what you think the direction is. So you can be aware in your own microcosm.
You know, you've done your work and this is what you think it looks like. But you haven't really kicked the tires on is this the true direction? Is this pursuit? Is this pursuit even what I truly want to be pursuing in the first place? So, you know, a friend of mine, Tiz McNamara, has this song and it's, you know, why are you running if you're running in the wrong direction? Like there's one line and...
I just bastardize it. It's so well said, but it's true. You could be performing, but if you're going in the wrong direction, if it's not congruent to who you are, it's actually working against you. So there's so many layers to performing. There's the act of getting better. There's the curiosity, opening possibilities, and there's the questioning of the congruence with, is that who you are? So that's, that's our starting point, Andrews. That, that makes sense.
AP (10:43)
There's a lot there and I think it's it feels congruent I'll add a little color to what you shared with say like the three pillars of mastery, right? so this is how I would start a conversation with someone who's Not performing where they think they were or where they have before in the past. It's like, okay is your skill do you have the skill to do what you need to do and Generally, that's a yes. Okay. Do you have the awareness like?
do you know what to do and when to do it? Right. And let's just say like hitting a golf shot, like, do you know when to hit driver and do you know when to lay up? Okay. That's an easy metaphor. And then from there, do you have the composure in all different instances to be able to handle what's going on during the game? Right. So then easily we can begin to see, okay, actually I need to up level skill. Okay. So that's,
That's something that all athletes are doing all the time. So how can I up -level skill? And there's many ways to do that, but at least we know where to go. Actually, I need to up -level my awareness, my strategy, and where I think I am and where I actually am is off. Okay, so how do I do that? The best way to create awareness is through reflection. Okay, so where did I have an unskillful moment, unskillful behavior, okay? And then from there,
going into composure because an unskillful behavior can be because of composure generally. So composure is one of those things that I see in a younger group of athletes that I would work with. They're not as high up, you know, like say they're like a six or a seven where the best in the world are a nine or a 10 and generally like a nine, five or a 10, right? So,
Gary (12:34)
Hmm.
AP (12:41)
Just from there, we know what to do. So how do you train composure? Well, there's a couple different things. One is there's an expectation of we think things should be different. So I expect that I'm going to perform well. And when I don't, I have a very negative reaction. Okay, I'm not composed and that composure lack of composure creeps into longer and longer periods of the game. Okay, so.
I drop energy state as you called it. For me, there's two ways. One is to sort of prime ourselves and this is saying, hey, my intention is that everything's gonna go perfectly today. But for whatever reason, if it doesn't, I'm gonna accept that outcome. Okay? So it's not saying I'm gonna fuck up.
generally you probably will mess up. But how am I gonna react when I do mess up? Okay, so that's one. And then the other way is literally, we've talked about this before, is just through the physiology. So even if I do mess up and I'm feeling super angry, how can I be with myself in that moment, be with my breath, be with the reality of the situation, to be able to compose myself.
to be able to have a good strategy going forward. So this is how we would start the conversation and whatever you're going through would color where to place awareness. But a short antidote, I was playing in the second stage of European Tourist School. The only thing I was focused on that day was how can I be curious about everything that's going on? Okay.
So any judgments I'm having, any reactions I'm having, so I hit a great shot. I'm like, wow, this feels good. Wow. Like, isn't it amazing that I can feel this in my body? Like curious of where the energy is coming from. Equally, when I didn't hit a great shot and I experienced judgment, like, wow, you're really judging yourself really hard right now. And being a little more curious instead of in that,
I just curiosity creates almost like this third person view of reality in some ways. And for me, that was the thing that allowed me to not detach from the present moment, but to really understand what is happening in reality. Because my internal judgment isn't necessarily coherent with what's happening in the environment.
Gary (15:12)
Mm -hmm.
AP (15:36)
So just kind of coloring the stages that you set up, that's how we can begin to navigate our environment and our internal environment for performance.
Gary (15:53)
I think when you talked about, you know, that third person perspective, it really is that journey of awareness. And it is that, it's almost like an implicit feedback that we don't usually truly value. We just get the judgmental side of the feedback. We don't really get the message, you know, we just get the feedback from this, you know,
self -imposed, self -flagellating. It's just how I am specifically and how a lot of people are. So it's really about just getting all the information instead of this. Again, we say it's a life without curiosity is an echo chamber of our own biases. And that's really what happens when we're not choosing to become more curious and choosing to become more aware.
so I love that. And from a, from a performing perspective, you know, I think awareness is probably, the only way it's kind of like in those smart objectives, he has, you know, specific measurable, actionable, you know, that stupid acronym. there is some validity in having something you can kind of grapple onto and knowing where you're at is really the only way to be able to know, how are you going to get better at something?
When you're talking about awareness, I just want to, you know, double click on this for a second. In our definition of curiosity, we had seeking awe, the pursuit of awe. And I mentioned that direction we had before and how the direction was super key, right? And it's really the seeking awe. It's the seeking awe that really informs, are we in the right direction?
You know, and I wanted to chat about this a little bit because it's truly where the power comes from. I don't, I don't believe unless you're insanely gifted that if you don't find some level of awe in what you're doing. And again, it's how we define awe. Awe doesn't have to be on the top of Mount Everest looking over the Himalayas. Awe could be again, being way more grateful in life. And when you are more grateful in life, you're going to find awe in the weirdest places.
You know, I find on Saturday mornings having a French press coffee and Casey's in the kitchen making breakfast. You know, I'm in awe of that is such an, it's such an amazing moment. It's such a peaceful moment. Now, when we're pursuing something in terms of performance, career sports, whatever, you know, I still think there has to be a certain amount of other because without, you're not going to have, again, we get to that catalyst. Now you're not going to have that extra bump.
that extra nitro to rally up the bravery potentially to go that extra mile. And I just, the word awe, there's a great book on awe by, I think his name is Keltner, but he's out of, I think University of California, Berkeley or something. And I wanted to focus on this because I think we put way too little,
emphasis on how important it is because I know about you, Andrew, but for me, the difference between me performing in a certain area was mostly about when it really got tough and when there was resistance. Did I believe, did I care enough to keep on going? And that's really where the awe comes in.
AP (19:40)
I was having this conversation with a guy last week actually, right? And so you have someone who's super skilled, world -class in something and has lost the awe, maybe not lost it, but is focusing on the monotony of it. And the monotony is not giving the results. The results aren't matching. So this is sort of a downward spiral. The energy is depleted, right? So,
I think a really good place and I've had many points in my life where I'm continuously asking myself this question, but it's like, and if you're continuing doing what you want to do, and let's just stick with that for the moment and then we can pursue another lane. But if you want to perform tomorrow better than you perform today, what are the things that you love about the daily life of what you're doing, right?
What things are you grateful for as you as you would say? Right? What are these little moments? Not the big moments. The big moments are obvious, right? But what are these little things you like? and being able to connect to those things and write them out and potentially also write out what are the things that you you're not enjoying about this? You know, and then we can begin to see,
both expanding gratefulness or the expanding the curiosity, expanding the nitro. And then at the same time sort of seeing, hey, where's the friction and how can we either remove the frictional automatically or start to unravel where the friction is coming from. And so that's a conversation that for me is almost first because we get to feel again.
we get to feel the things that we really love about what we're doing. And I think that's an important thing, especially for, you know, my work with professional athletes, so doing this 365 days a year. So it gets boring, it gets tough, it gets exhausting. So how are we flexing curiosity in those right moments to get the nitro?
Gary (21:57)
Hmm. You know, maybe that's, that's really the key takeaway here. It's almost like the metaphor of the story of when they built the railroad in the U S you know, there was a, almost like a competition. I forget the names like union Pacific might've been one of them or something, but they were two groups. And I think it was whoever gets over the Sierra Madre is first or something like, and.
The reason that I bring that up is because maybe when it comes to, you know, the juice, getting the juice again, you have to work on two areas. You got to do the work to pay more attention to what you like about what you're doing. But you also have to reduce the set point on what it means to enjoy something again. And that's where gratitude comes in. Do you know what I mean? Like, this is the most obvious example.
AP (22:47)
Hmm.
Gary (22:54)
You got to work on both. It's kind of like, you know, there's certain time in your life when popping bottles and, you know, flying in a jet to go party somewhere was, that was awe. That was the amount of titillations you needed to be engaged, you know, but when you're more grateful for life, well, then that becomes less and less important. Right. So you don't need that to feel in awe of things. So I think that for me, it's the takeaway. I got to work on both.
I got to definitely be more grateful and I have to be more present and curious about what this moment is feeling like. And with those two, I can say, okay, this moment and what I know about myself and what I'm attracted to and what I like doing, does it feel like enough? Does it feel like enough? And if it doesn't feel like enough, why doesn't it feel like enough? Am I not really grateful? And I had this conversation with a friend yesterday and he made a comment and was like, maybe it's me.
AP (23:53)
Hmm.
Gary (23:55)
Maybe it's me. You know what I mean? Maybe it's me. Maybe it's, maybe it's me. Maybe I think I'm, I'm grateful, but I'm not. How can I possibly be grateful, in this situation? So I think we have to work on both. It's not a judgment. but I think it's super, super important because I'm, I'm, I'm seeing it. If I'm jazzed about something and I have a generative drive and I feel like I have agency,
AP (23:56)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Gary (24:23)
Dr. Conti talks about this. If I have those two things and I feel jazzed about something, it's math at that point. For sure, I'm going to perform because I'm going to be, I'm going to be testing my hypothesis. I'm going to be getting feedback. I'm going to be iterating. I'm going to be doing it again, again, again, again, because the reason I show up is because I'm jazzed about it. And then it's just math. It's like Ray Kurzweil talking about hitting the singularity.
at 2040, you know, it's about us achieving escape velocity in 2029 from a lifespan perspective for him. It's just math that's been done before. This is just math and he's playing it out. Well, this is kind of just math in some way. So then the answer becomes, okay, well, you know what? I could be jazzed about something and I gotta, I gotta let go. I gotta believe characters fate and I gotta let go and say, you know what?
As long as I lead with good character and I'm jazzed about this, everything's going to turn out exactly as it should. And maybe that's what performing is. Performing is exactly where you end up whenever you end up there, if you're jazzed and you're showing up the right way.
AP (25:39)
Yeah, Gary, I really, I really love that one thing you mentioned is do I have agency? And I think that's something that happens certainly in professional sports and probably in corporate world. It's like the schedule is already set. I've, I've agreed at some point or I need to at some point show up for this thing. Right. And, and sometimes we don't want to do that or be that we don't have the energy or for,
various different reasons, right? So what do we do then? We're in this place, we've committed to something, might've been 10 months ago, we don't wanna do it. And how do we change our perspective? I think that's what we're really talking about here. Changing our perspective of what this actually is. And the gratitude is super, super powerful.
One anecdote to that is I remember never being grateful because I was so angry, especially as a younger man. Right. So I'm like, fuck, yeah, you might think my life is good, but you don't even fucking know me. You don't know what I'm going through. Right. And I think that's okay. Meaning like we all are where we're at. So how do we use where we're at? So what happens if you're angry and you don't have agency? How do you then shift the perspective? Okay. So a,
Gary (26:40)
Hmm.
Mm -hmm.
AP (27:05)
Do you want to show up and play the game? Yes or no? Generally, it's it's yes. 99 % of the time, sometimes it's no. OK, don't don't show up then if you're going to if you don't want to show up like truthfully, right? It's it's a hard question, but but. From there. How do you how do you want to be? You know?
Gary (27:26)
Mm -hmm.
AP (27:35)
How do you want to show up if you agree to go? If you don't have gratitude, I think the next place to go to is what you talk about a lot is the negative visualization. Some people might not feel grateful inside, and I've been there before, but what happens if we go to negative visualization? I'll let you explain it because you do this a lot and systematically.
Gary (27:51)
Hmm.
Mm -hmm.
AP (28:04)
But I think that's the next way to gain perspective.
Gary (28:09)
Yeah. So for people who are aware, it's a stoic practice, I guess that's where it's attributed anyway, from what I've heard in the guide to the good life by Irvine. He puts a lot of focus on that. And it's essentially from what I understand and the way I look at it, it's a way of feeling grateful instead of thinking yourself grateful. So for example,
You know, I have a cousin he can't see, right? So maybe one morning I'll say, okay, what if I couldn't see? What if I didn't have the gift of sight? Something very basic we take for granted. Well, now I think of my cousin and I write about a paragraph about all the things that would be more difficult, all the things I wouldn't have. So I'd say, wow, you know, I could just get up and go get eggs at the market, you know?
everything would be more difficult. I would need, you know, to think about everything I do. It'd be more limiting. And I write about that for a paragraph and that at the end, I'm like, wow, all these things that I get to do. And I've heard this before and some motivational thing, but, there's a way of saying, you know, I got to do that versus I get to do that. And when.
you practice negative visualization, your whole world becomes, wow, I get to do that. You know, I have legs, I get to do a deadlift. You know, not that that's a big deal, but I have, you know, both hands, I get to do this. You know, I have my hearing, my sense of smell. I have Casey, I have Luna, I have shelter. You know, I have food security. These are very basic things.
But it's the very basic things you have to pay attention to. Like in the movie Soul, the big realization was what gave him awe was a piece of pizza being dragged by a rat was, a flower or a leaf floating down from a tree. You know, it was, hearing the sound of somebody playing music in the subway. His reflection brought all of these little banal kind of pedestrian things that happened in our day.
And that's what negative visualization is supposed to make you feel.
AP (30:41)
And I think that feeling is what you're talking about is the catalyst for getting over the hump, right? We want to feel better about what we're doing and getting that energy, like there's meaning in what we're doing. Yeah.
Gary (30:58)
Yeah, it's like dominoes, right? The the feeling, the are getting jazzed about it almost like in order it would be negative visualization makes you feel gratitude, which opens up new possibilities of awe, which then fuels that drive to be brave in that direction you want to achieve performance like it truly is that kind of cascade.
And the whole beginning is really about building up that potential energy, right? And the bravery, the catalyst is to convert that into kinetic energy, right? To actually perform. But up until then, it's really just all potential and it's a beautiful way to look at it. There's a lot of factors in us building that potential.
AP (31:43)
Dude, you just nailed it. That was so beautiful.
Gary (31:46)
Not thanks, dude. Every once in a while, a broken clock's right twice a day. That's what they say about Trump. Well, Trump's done this. Well, a broken clock is right twice a day. So, too many metaphors there. so you know what, dude? I think that's a great, I think that's a great beginning, middle, end. You know, it touches on all the areas, you know, at the end, I actually wrote.
AP (31:52)
Let's not bring this guy into it.
Gary (32:15)
this is a catalyst, you know, the catalyst is the key. What's the catalyst composed of? I think we just do an infographic on this to be honest, because I truly think it does lend itself to these nudges and we can all, we can almost, map these nudges out. Like it's a very, it's, it can be a very systematic thing for a very subjective thing at the same time. But I truly do think we can put a little bit of color in terms of,
what direction we're going in terms of that drive and really help open things up for people. So I don't know. I think that was a good jam, brother.
AP (32:53)
Yeah, I think it was great. Thanks, Gary.
Gary (32:55)
Awesome, brother. Okay. Thank you. I feel like, I feel like I'm on, we're still rolling by the way. I feel like I'm, that's so funny. I feel like I'm on that Seinfeld episode. You remember, you remember. Yeah. Yeah. That's part of it. You remember. Yeah. You remember when, when Kramer built that talk show.
AP (32:58)
Dude.
yeah?
Are we still recording? Like, is this part of it? What? Do I need to sit down again?
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun.
Gary (33:26)
And, and, what was it? It was, what was that talk show? the such an old show, but at the end, this whole story was for this at the end. He goes, okay, well, that's another, that's another episode and nothing really happened. So anyway, whatever, I'll edit whatever I want to edit, but, thanks again, Andrew. That was another episode.
AP (33:45)
Hahaha
Gary (33:56)
of quiet the noise where we dug into performance. Again, be sure to subscribe if you dig this sharing is caring. You know what? If you think people would, if you think people would give a shit about this, you know, share it. I think it's a, we think it's gold. So anyway, until next time guys, see you later.
Alright dude.
