#10 - Character Code: Humility As The Pathway To Possibility

Gary (00:01.458) Okay. That's on. It's on. Your speaker, your speaker, your microphone, it's not directly in front of you. Like that, that always works. Hey, yours has a good pickup. No, because you sound good. Like even when I was at the side, mine, mine, see, like, look at the difference. AP (00:09.709) Yeah. AP (00:18.926) Yeah, I can talk. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. How's this one relative to this? This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. Gary (00:36.946) Yeah, it's better when it is closer. You are sounding a little cavernous when, when you're not as close, there's more echo in that room. AP (00:41.069) Okay. Okay. Oof! Oof! Gary (00:46.866) All right. Hola. We're starting. Gary (00:58.13) All right, Casey knows we're starting. All right. All right. Okay. So let's, so let's get going. I'll kick it off. AP (01:04.556) All right. Gary (01:10.738) Hey everybody. My name is Gary LaBlanc from the, Uhhhh Gary (01:20.498) Okay. Hey everybody. My name is Gary LeBlanc. Welcome to another episode of quiet, the noise character code sessions with Andrew par hands. AP (01:31.628) Gary, what's up man? Thanks for having me. Gary (01:34.482) Yeah. Another one in the books upcoming. We're going to talk about humility in terms of, you know, we talked about the pillars before and we were thinking of which pillars to lead with in this character code journey and humility really stood out. So we're going to dig into humility. We're going to dig into why it's tough to be humble these days. We're going to define humility in terms of how we see it, you know, the motivations to not be humble and the incentives for leading with ego. And we're going to dig into all that. And then we're going to try to give it a bit more color, make it a little more practical and get into some scenarios. So we'll talk about the sports world. We'll talk about the business world and you know, we're pumped about this because it truly is what's lacking these days. AP (02:24.298) Yeah, I think this is one of the keys that can change everyone's life instantly. So look forward to digging in here. Gary (02:31.524) Wicked, wicked. Okay, so let's get right into it. So humility, and I'm gonna read a definition just because we spent so much time coming up with it. Okay, humility. Humility involves letting go, respecting the limits of what we can control and calming our egoic need to express our own importance. A life without humility consists of phantom connections attracted by the protective field of your arrogance. So there's a lot to unpeel there. You know, there's keywords such as control, right? We talk about epic tethys's trichotomy of control, really focusing on what you can control. And when we lead with ego, we have this almost, it's almost a, a diluted conception of thinking we can control all of these by, by kind of forcing our ego on things, you know, trying to. trying to kind of cajole almost a big globule of water and thinking we can, we can actually maintain that. And that's why control and ego are so prominent in that. And this need to express our own importance, obviously uncovers fear components to it. And we ended up with showing what a life without humility looks like. And really what stands out is that the protective field of our arrogance. You know, and maybe that's the best place for us to dig into what that really is. Because what that means is that protective field of our arrogance is fueled by what it's fueled by fear. and that's where this all stems. And that's where you do a lot of your work, Andrew. AP (04:16.04) Yeah, I think there's a couple of things that come up, Gary. One is the trichotomy of control, right? So we're trying to have certainty in our life. And when things feel uncertain, there's almost this grasping for trying to control, right? So that's one way in which I would say arrogance comes up. and let's just quickly, I'll quickly define ego as I see it. It's sort of behaving out of this place. this protective place, we don't feel really certain in our environment and we're trying to, we're coming guns blazing in some sort of way. We're not really open to what's in front of us, right? the one thing I wanted to touch on with the fear, and I think this is, fear is tricky because we all feel it, but it's kind of enmeshed in so many other different feelings. but there's one thing with humility, or lack of is we want to feel validated, we want to feel accepted, we want to feel like we're contributing value, we want to feel like people like us, all these sorts of things. So from a fear basis, there's five major types of fear in say modern psychology and I think they're mostly programmed within us. One is the fear of death and I don't know many people who aren't afraid of dying, I certainly am. There's the fear of mutilation. So something, you know, whatever, cutting off a hand or breaking an arm, things like this. There's the fear of loss of autonomy. So not being able to make a decision for ourselves, loss of freedom. There's the fear of abandonment or separation. So that can be from people, that can be from jobs, that can be from location, et cetera. And then I'm blanking on the last one, Gary, what one? What's the last one that happened in front of me right now? Humiliation, it's humiliation. So the, yeah, apropos, the fear of humiliation, right? So all of these fears, for good reason, are deep -seated in how we have communicated in communities and groups forever, right? We really wanna be a part of it because for such a long time, if we didn't have community, we wouldn't survive. And... Gary (06:14.994) That's okay. It'll come to me. is it? Yeah. Well, look how apropos. AP (06:43.237) I see this sort of this programming and now there we can be part of multiple communities simultaneously and none of those communities can even know each other. So it's we're kind of living in a different world. So how do we use this deep seated programming and also navigate a very different world. Gary (07:03.478) Yeah, you know, you said a few things about, you know, limiting possibility. It's actually a really interesting aspect of this. What really happens when you try to control a situation, you try to almost create these boundaries, you know, you want to create the rules of the game, the rules of engagement. You want to know what that looks like. So you can control it. This is something you know, and really being humble. And when you combine humility with curiosity and starting to listen, being open to new possibilities. It's really leaving yourself exposed because this is kind of a new world. It's not something you're used to controlling. So humility is really, and I love the way you put it, limiting possibility. Humility is really about opening possibilities, really creating more potential outcomes. And this can feel very disorienting in a lot of ways. And I think that's why, You know, it's this constant interplay between our ego and then accepting possibilities and allowing the game board to kind of flow. You know, you talk about Bruce Lee and water and letting things flow. And you talk about the Dow and everything. It's about this universal flow of energy, Heraclitus. And you know, no man steps in the same river twice. You know, that river, that water metaphor is so beautiful because if we start to be more humble, we start to let go and we start to not need those answers. And I think that's why it's such a beautiful place and why humility is such an anchor in all these pillars, because it really is the intention to let go and to open yourself up for new possibilities. And the first part of that is really starting to feel where that fear is coming from and what it feels like when you dip your toe in. So when we're going to talk about these scenarios, it's going to be really interesting because we're going to start to try to articulate. how it feels to start to let go, to start to be more humble. And, you know, I can talk from my perspective, Andrew, you can talk from a million perspectives because you coach these guys all the time. But in the end, it's going to be such an unlock. I personally think this is such an unlock because it's a big unlock for me. And it is really something that's so subjective, but something that's incredibly objective at the same time. Like I can literally say, I'm going to focus. I'm going to have the intention. Gary (09:27.698) to be more humble in this meeting. Right. So in this next hour, I'm not going to try to one up. I'm not going to name drop. I'm not going to do all these bullshit things that really don't look good. We think they look good. They don't look good. It never comes off good. You can smell ego and it closes. And that's why anyway, I'm super pumped about this. And from an articulation perspective, that just, All fits like keys in a lock for me. AP (09:58.624) Yeah, I think we all know the feeling of being on the other side when someone's coming forward with a lot of arrogance. There's really no room for connection, right? There's no interest for connection really. And that doesn't feel good generally for anyone. And vice versa, when we are doing the same thing, we're not actually intending to connect. We're trying to assert some sort of dominance. And... Gary (10:24.306) Hmm. AP (10:26.143) for me in my life now there were parts of my life where I thought that that was the best play. For me now it never is the best play. Just because... If we look at what we can control, yes, I have direction. Yes, I know what things are important, but there's so many other possibilities that can bring a bring a sort of richness to my life. So you talked about Bruce Lee, this letting go. You talk about this all the time, Gary is like, what is the noise in our life? And there's so much noise when we're arrogant, we're, we're thinking about what people think they're thinking about us and how do I want to come off in this situation and Gary (11:04.498) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. AP (11:09.534) How am I presenting myself, right? So that noise depletes so much energy. And so when we talk about caricature to character, there's a lot of noise in the caricature, right? And to let go and really have some curiosity about a situation, to really have the humility to take it all in for a moment, I think that's where the rest comes. Like we actually don't need to try and... I think that when we talk about sort of feeling energy and it takes a lot to not be humble. Gary (11:47.378) Yeah, it's, it's a great point. You know, you mentioned it's never the best play, right? And it's never the best play because what does ego attract? Ego attracts ego. You know, you attract what you are. You don't attract what you want. You attract really what you are. And when you lead with ego, you get ego. So what does that result in? It really results in, you know, again, this. Like you said, a caricature, it is not reality and it's not reality in both ways. And then what happens is the ego you're attracting just fuels the need to maintain your own. And you end up being surrounded by exactly what you don't want your life, which then becomes the noise, right? That's where the noise comes from. It's all these incongruent, incongruent energies. That's not who you are. It's not who they are. And then all of a sudden you're in this situation where it's purely trying to. almost articulate feeling and behaving in a certain way that just doesn't feel right. And the other person's doing the same. And you end up with this network that is just, it's just fueled by the wrong things, which just ends up being noise. So I really do love that because again, it puts the onus on us. And if we believe that, and I think that's, that's maybe where we, we kind of end the articulation, the whole point of this. isn't something to teach or to educate or to know. It is something that you need to integrate into your life. You have to believe it because it is incredibly unnatural. And if you don't believe it, and I say it's unnatural, I think it's unnatural in this world because we'll just look at all the tools, the tools promote, you know, this, we mentioned this, what's it called? The. protective field of our own arrogance. Like think of Instagram. It's literally a protective field of this person you want to be. And it's this error gap between reality. It's literally this virtual you. So I think it's interesting that we need to believe, we need to trust because we're going to get no validation. We're going to get no feedback that this is a good thing for us. In the short term, it'll probably feel like it's working against us because we'll get a lot less attention. Gary (14:11.154) And we don't really qualify attention. Attention is attention in this state. You know, you get a like, you get a heart, whatever. It could be someone you don't even care about. You don't even care where the fucking light came from. It could be from some psycho that, you know, worships like a mass mutilation. Who knows? You know, you don't know where the likes from. Like, so it's so, it's so empty. And I know nobody checks who the likes come from. Cause all you do is you need that validation. So again, it's going to feel weird, but I think if we get into some scenarios, I think people are going to realize this is a very tangible thing and we can nudge into it. Tomorrow, you're not all of a sudden going to be this, you know, humble guy like Nelson Mandela. Like there's no danger that we're all of a sudden going to be incredibly selfless. No, but you know what? We can start to nudge ourselves there and that's where the power is. And that's where these tactics are going to be super cool. So. I know Andrew, do you want to give a little scenario of let's kind of walk through this from maybe a sports perspective. AP (15:14.649) Sure, yeah, I think we can touch on a couple different perspectives because I think it's showing up in all parts of our lives from relationships with partners and friends to what we're doing for a career and potentially, you know, health and discovering, you know, on our life. So maybe I'll speak specifically about what it looks like with some of the people that I would work with. So I'll come from it from a coach's perspective. And I think this is really helpful when you're leading a group of people. the greatest power that I've found is actually in the collective field of wisdom, right? So we can coach a team from a hierarchical top -down approach and sort of like try to put the troops in line, but in reality, I think our superpowers as humans is actually this spontaneity, this improvisational. type of quality, this creative quality that's coming from space, that's coming from trust, that's coming from sometimes even necessity, right? So as a coach, what I'm really trying to do is allow them to know themselves so they can coach themselves because I can't be there when they need to hit the shot of their lives. I'm not there saying beside them, right? I'm not there beside them when they're having a meltdown. Gary (16:30.418) Mm -hmm. AP (16:34.999) internally in the middle of their biggest game of their life, right? So how can we start to empower people to understand one another by just asking different questions? So for me, and I was speaking with the water polo coach at Stanford, I'm dropping names here for to give some sort of validation. I'm saying this because this guy's won, I think like seven of the last nine national championships. Gary (16:57.074) Mm -hmm. Gary (17:04.082) Mm -hmm. AP (17:04.79) he just asks questions to every athlete. He's never telling an athlete to do something. He's trying to get an athlete to be more aware of what their strengths are, what's blocking them, what's the scenario, how to gain composure, right? So I think allowing the athlete to really feel these things for themselves allows greater connection to themselves so that in those moments that are, you know, have an opportunity of a lifetime, or trying to get through something that's kind of sticky, they know what to do. They don't actually need a coach. And in that moment, I think that's the most valuable thing for an athlete truly excelling at the world class level. Gary (17:49.202) Hmm. No, that's super cool. So, you know, he asked some questions, I guess, to in the end, unlock where the fear is, unlock where he's not just opening himself up and exposing himself. AP (18:03.861) Sure, I mean, I'll just give some personal examples. So an athlete would come to me usually for a couple different reasons. One, they're jumping up a level. So they're going into a space that they've never really been in. There's a lot of uncertainty and really trying to create a really good support system. The other scenario is they've performed really well for a long period of time and now they're not performing at that. So there's a little lull. Depression in some ways are not excited about the sport, about playing, et cetera. So in either situation, it's like, okay, how are you when you're at your best? And I think this is really important to anchor for people. It's like, not saying, and sure, I can have feedback, but asking them, what does it feel like? What are you aware of? What are you doing in your life? Gary (19:00.274) Mm -hmm. AP (19:02.195) Right. And in a team setting, this becomes very powerful because the trends are generally the same. Right. And then what is, you know, what's going through your mind? What are you doing when you're not at your best? These are very simple questions, but a lot of the time there's a lot of judgment. There's a lot of comparison. There's a lot of fear from outside influences. Right. And so. dealing with the fear and I think it's obviously easier to deal with the fear when someone's really kind of in a tricky situation or sticky or they're not performing the way they want. It's easier to have that conversation because they're really actually quite open to discovering what's going on because it really doesn't feel good and it's affecting all their life. So in asking say these three simple questions, something they can connect those dots. Now in the moment, and I'll share this like before a major championship and it's, and it's say like the final, the final day of the big game or whatever. hopefully there's been enough of a conversation that when things get off, they can course correct, but it doesn't mean, as a coach, we can also like provide feedback from what we're seeing, but we're also, Gary (20:24.434) Mm -hmm. AP (20:30.353) connecting it to what are they experiencing as well. So that question isn't like just do this. It's like, what are you feeling? What are you seeing? And how is that corresponding with reality? So sort of went around there from sort of a coaching perspective, but I feel like the best coaches I've had are the ones that have asked me the best questions. They're not even trying to, they're not trying to, Gary (20:54.034) Mm -hmm. AP (20:59.472) teach me other Than how to how can I learn on my own? Gary (21:06.038) Yeah. Reminds me of, you know, in Sam Harris's app, waking up, he gives, he gives meditation training and oftentimes he refers to when you're meditating and you focus on that thought. So that cloud that comes into your consciousness, the minute you focus on it, it dissipates, it loses its power and you move on. And it's a little bit of the same thing, because if you don't notice that the whole meditation, you're going to be mind wandering and stuck in that probably a negative feedback loop. The minute you see that negative feedback loop, it dissolves. It kind of feels like the same thing. It feels like when you start to let go and you start to feel and start to not need to control as much, you can see where that negative feedback is. You can kind of put your finger on that fear. And it dissolves it a little bit because at least for me, then you can start to objectify it. Now you know what you're dealing with and now you can say, okay, okay, I get it. I'm feeling a little bit of angst here. Okay. I'm speaking in front of 400 people. Yeah. Okay. I want to look good. I want to sound good and I can see how I'm getting a little nervous, but I've been here before. So that's where the nerves, the nerves are from me thinking I need to impress people. you know what? I've done the work. I've done 150 % of the work I needed to do to be ready for this. So I can check that box. I know that's where it's coming from. I objectify it. I check the box by having a logical conversation with myself because for me, that's kind of the way to do it, right? Because there's really no logic in how you're feeling. So for me, the only way is to start to almost disassemble the scaffolding of that negative feedback loop. Right. And the only way I can do that is through believing, right. Believing what I'm telling myself. Okay. No, I've done this before. Yada, yada, yada, yada. So does that, is that analogy good? Kind of the, the dissolving of the fear by focusing on it. AP (23:21.933) Yeah, I think understanding what our fears are super helpful because... it allows us to consciously have compassion for it. And I think having compassion for anything is true acceptance of life as it is, right? So I think when we can have compassion followed by acceptance of life how it is, then we can accept this new reality that we're in. I like the logical dialogue. I am that person as well. but a lot of these things are feelings, right? So what do we do when we feel nervous? And I think for me, I always go into the physiology, right? So I'll always go into the breathing, always go into the heart center, always go into my visual cue. What am I looking at? How can I expand, have a sort of a softer gaze, a more open gaze? And I find that when I can become present with this moment, then my physiology, I end up relaxing. My heart rate slows down, my breath slows down, and these things do affect how we're thinking also. So I think these things in tandem are really important. They say the mental game, I think it's a mental game, it's an emotional game, it's a physical game, they're all interlinked. And how do we use the tool at the right time? All these tools can work, but sometimes, you know, ones work better than others. For me, the breath always works. you know, the visual cue always works. So I focus on that and then I can have the conversation. That's what I find works best, you know, in performance under the gun, et cetera. Gary (25:03.186) Yeah. Gary (25:10.418) Yeah, it makes sense. Again, it all comes full circle, right? It's the same feedback you'd give yourself when, you know, something bad happens, right? It's, it's that anxiety that comes from whatever direction it's creating a chemical situation in your body, a physical situation, something you feel that it makes a lot more difficult to navigate that when you're swimming in it. So having these kind of somatic practices, you know, be at the breath, be it, you know, doing 10 squat jumps, you know what I mean? Doing a 32nd sprint, something to kind of put a spoke in the wheel and, and to give yourself a fighting chance at being able to think clearly. Cause to your point, it's really hard to be objective. Again, you got to get to a place where you can even think objectively. And it depends on the level of fear that there is. And it depends on what situation. Like I gave that example of speaking to people. Like there's a million, there's a million examples of how you behave when you're dealing, especially with people you don't know, people you don't necessarily trust, right? You always can go back and say, okay, how did I, and even reflecting on this, it's such a powerful practice. Even we journal about it. So me, for example, you know, Let's say I'm in a group where I don't feel as adequate based on certain metrics, right? So again, you know, I have my own insecurities, yada, yada, yada. And I could be in a group. Look, I could be in a group of world -class figure skaters and I'm an average figure skater and I'm getting in a room. You're automatically not going to feel welcome. You're automatically going to be like, okay, how can I be extra cool? so that these people like me. And that doesn't feel humble. So even though the intention is not to be an arrogant asshole, humility almost takes shape even when you just have insecurity about a situation. So it's not like you're going and wanting to be arrogant, but the artifact you leave is one of arrogance because you're not acting yourself. Gary (27:33.874) And it never ends up landing well, right? We talked about name dropping, all that stuff. It doesn't end up landing well. So, you know, for me, the power is, and when you look at that scenario, so I'm part of this group, I'm going in and I'm just thinking about how I'm going to interact with these people. And I'm for sure going to have to make myself important early on, you know, instead of listening. So this is the first thing I would do. I would not have the intention to listen. I would listen and I'm not socially inept. You know, I have a certain amount of situational awareness, but in the back of my mind, I would have the pedal on the gas of, okay, when, when are my moments to show how important I am for sure, for sure. And look, this all different degrees. So that's one I get in there and that's, and that's the, those are the pheromones I'm giving off. That's the stink I'm releasing. Okay. Here's a guy who has to, you know, pump out his chest, not a good look, you know, regardless. And then I think of the people who do it right. So the people who are confident and not confident in an arrogant way, confident in that they believe that what they are is enough. They're doing what they can, you know, they don't have to pump out their chest for whatever reason. Maybe they're accomplished good for them, but you know how that feels. And then it can be over flexed where someone is so arrogant that they don't have to listen or talk to anybody. And they just act like everything's going to come to them type of deal. So again, you can over flex everything in terms of behavior, but everybody knows what that feels like. Everybody has been in that room where they have to pump themselves up. And the second thing I would do is I say, okay, what if I leaned in differently? Because the challenge for me is they don't know me. So they don't know how great I am. They don't know that I'm so great at mental math and you know, I know the body and this and that bullshit, you know, like who cares? Who cares? They don't know me. So the first thing I'm like, well, I got to have them know that right away. Okay. So then you say, okay, well, what if I didn't do that? Well, then they wouldn't know me. So how do you bridge that gap? So how do you bridge this gap? Well, now they don't know me. Okay. Well, now they're going to think I'm a loser. Well, why would they think I'm a loser? Gary (29:56.626) Do I think everybody here is a loser? No. You know, when do I start having judgments? I start having judgments in a room when somebody's ego is palatable. That's when I start having judgments. I never judge people who aren't leading with ego. So why do I think I'm going to be judged and disparaged because I don't lead with being a hero, you know, and look, I don't need to be noticed in a room. I'm lucky in a lot of ways. I'm six, four. You're not going to blend into the wallpaper, right? So there's so, so it's this weird. And I know this happens because trust me, I think about all time. And after these meetings, I journal about it. And I think about it. I'm like, fuck. man. I just name dropped three times. Contextually. Yours was different. You were telling a story. Me, it was contextually and I knew I was doing it, but I thought I was being smart about it. AP (30:29.411) Hehehe. Gary (30:55.826) And I did it in a roundabout way, but it was still fucking the same thing, the same place. So anyway, all that to say, these are great reflections, man. Like there's no manual here. I love the questions. You know, the simple question of when did I lean in with ego in the past month? When was I not humble? Super easy. What triggered it? Right. What was the fear? What was the opportunity cost? Well, the opportunity cost was I probably lost the opportunity to really connect with a few. great people. The opportunity cost was now they probably left already thinking Gary is, you know, high in himself and look at this guy thinking that and that, you know, and then it's like, okay, well, what am I going to do differently? Well, I'm going to really lean in with setting the intention before I get in that room. You know what, LeBlanc, you're going to fucking listen and you're not going to name drop. You're not going to have to make people feel you're important. People are going to pull it out of you. If somebody's curious, they're going to pull it out of you. And if they're not, well, maybe you're in the wrong conversation. If someone's not pulling it out of you, if someone's not curious, then why are you talking to them in the first place? Right. And, you know, anyway, that that's kind of a roundabout way to show you how I think in every random interaction. AP (32:10.529) I don't think you're alone. I think, you know, I've certainly felt that I feel that all the time. The thing that you ended with though is, is if the person that we're connecting with or not connecting with, but the person in the room that is curious and humble, then we can actually go somewhere. We can actually connect. And I think for me, the, I don't want to call it like, When I stopped caring about needing to sort of feel important and that's not, it's still, like you said, it's degrees. I still have that need, but mostly my daily life, it's. the people I'm spending time with are also like that. And it's amazing what is possible from creating, designing things to just having good talks, to sharing what life could look like, to not being in conflict with each other because we don't agree. It doesn't mean we don't need to agree on things to even get along. And I think that's the beautiful thing. So when I think of, Humility, you know, humility in a workspace or in a party is very powerful. But humility and conflict is probably the most powerful thing, right? So I think this shows up, you know, showed up for me in personal relationships, like intimate relationships with partner, wife, et cetera. It's like, why do I need to feel like I need to be right? And how can I just, like you said, just listen and be really curious for how this person is experiencing moment we share together that ended in both of us being sort of dissatisfied, right and For me, it's done. It's done two things one is It doesn't mean I'm not triggered but I'm just taking a taking a pause and I can still be with that but really really curious about the other person and how they're feeling so that that sort of care and compassion I AP (34:18.813) For me, when someone feels like someone's compassionate towards them, generally open up, right? Then there's no protective guards. There's no ego there anymore, right? So for me, this is a huge work for me because I still get triggered. I still want to react. I still want to bring the fire. And sometimes I do, and it never ends well, right? So... Gary (34:29.714) Hmm. AP (34:46.173) Me needing to be right never ends well. So that's the cost of arrogance for me in my life, especially like in any sort of relational setting, which is most of life, right? So I just sick of suffering and not having connection with people. So that for me is the incentive to go towards humility. Gary (34:54.13) Mm -hmm. Gary (35:09.778) Yeah, that's a good one because when you mention. Conflict and you mentioned not needing to win and I talked about this once I'm like if you're with someone you trust and you love right, you know their character So, you know what their eprom is, you know what their programming is But they behave in a way that you're just not aligned with you still know the person so, you know what? You don't have to win that you know, you just have to chalk it up as you know, they know just as well as I do That they didn't really You know, they didn't really show up the way they wanted. I don't have to rub it in. I don't have to rub the dog's nose in the piss. They probably know. Now, again, if it's someone you don't trust and yada, yada, yada, well, then it really doesn't matter. Then you don't have to win that anyway. You know, like the irony is the conversations you feel you need to win are the important ones with the important people, but those are the ones you don't have to win because you know them and you trust them. It's those times when you're in conflict with people who aren't important, right? Where it doesn't really matter if you win anyway, like what are you winning? Who cares? This person is not important. And when I say not important, I'm not saying we live in a vacuum. I'm saying, you know, we have those relationships that are important to us. You know, the people we trust, like I said, our network, right? And we put a disproportionate amount of meaning into those. Once you start getting to the peripheral, it really doesn't matter. And if it's going to create that much noise, then that's the information you need. So again, in all instances, winning isn't really winning, you know? and there really shouldn't even be winning when you're just trying to understand each other. There's no winning. It's like, your perspective is this. And look, this is super hard, especially with someone who you think is a douchebag. You know, this is super hard. And you know, I'm going to tell a little story, super quick one. Gary (37:10.386) But I had this, you know, I told this in a previous podcast, but there was this board meeting and it was a condo board meeting. So this meant nothing again, meant nothing, but you know, I had a healthy amount of ego in there and humble. I wasn't really humble. My body language, nothing about it was, you know, but I was triggered by something. It was a bully situation and stuff. And I'm like, after I was talking to Casey, I'm like, wow, I put a lot of equity into that stupid meeting. I don't think I've had adrenaline at that level in the past year. I was vibrating, vibrating with chemicals and it meant nothing. And then after I'm like, wow, it's so funny. All this talking I do and all this thinking I do, I still get triggered by dumb things that came from a weird place, which I think I know where it came from. You know, I don't like bullies. I don't like being bullied. I stuttered all that bullshit. You know, everybody has a story and it triggered something really deep. And again, How did it change me? Well, I went in like I'm this, this big tough guy in a room full of it's hard not to say disparaging words here, but, let's just say it wasn't worth anybody's time. So again, I really do love the fact that this is insanely tangible and we can all work on it. And it is infinite possibility, infinite possibility, because every day, every day, we can have two or three instances where we could look back and we could say, where was I unskillful? Where did I lead with ego? Where wasn't I humble? Why it's peel the onion. And once you start spinning that flywheel, like I say about all these things, you've won. it truly is, compound interest. So, you know, as far as where we take it from here, I don't know. Like that's a good spot for me, Andrew. AP (39:02.232) Yeah, we've covered the zones, right? And I think that's a really important sort of this environment, trichotomy of control, what kind of control, not control, influence, the sensation of fear when we're in that environment, the need to assert our self -importance or not, or sit back and be open and be curious, right? And I think you touched on this last part is like, how do we actually work through this? So, We know what this is. So, and you mentioned, like, where was I unskillful today? Where could I have been potentially more humble? What was I really afraid of in that moment or triggered in that moment? And what would I do differently in the same situation? I think that's, I think that in of itself is very important. It's sort of priming for, because it will happen again, probably tomorrow, right? Like, how do I want to, right? Gary (39:57.874) this afternoon. AP (40:01.046) So knowing that we're going to have these feelings again, how can we be with the feelings and then not just jump and, you know, sort of insert the intention of humility and listening and curiosity. And then the other part of that is a 360 approach. So how do we just ask, you know, people that we trust, not so that they would use that to, you know, as sort of collateral, but it's like, hey, I'm trying to grow here. Hey, can you just share a couple moments where you saw me lead with arrogance, right? And I think that for me is ultimate humility, right? Like how do we surrender to people that we trust and ask them for feedback? The feedback's not gonna feel good inside. But for me, that's where the juice is. So how do we do that for ourselves? And then how do we allow other people to do that for us? And I think those two things alone, as you said, get the flywheel going and... Gary (40:31.698) Big time. Gary (40:40.658) Hmm. AP (40:59.67) and we're fully powered. Gary (41:02.386) Yeah, no, I love that dude. It makes so much sense. And really, we don't like to... prop any character traits above others. Compassion is the ring that rules them all because it's the act of love. So love, it colors everything, right? It's the non -judgment. But when you look at humility, and we're going to talk about the other character pillars as well, but when you look at humility, it's almost like a tone. It's almost like a tone in everything you do. When you approach life more humbly with humility, It opens up possibilities instantly. Possibilities to grow because finally we're less, more or less defensive. Finally, we're opening up and we're being more curious. It really sets that tone for the other character traits to come in. Once we start being humble, now we start to listen. now we start to be a little more curious. now we're humble. You know what? That's an act of bravery. Yeah, it's definitely an act of bravery. So now I'm leaning in with that, which is a tough thing. And then. When you look at all the other ones, generosity, honesty, integrity, it is just a tone. And honestly, this day and age, humility is probably the thing that is the most lacking and where there's a vacuum needing to be filled with more of it. I believe it's one of the first steps of awareness, this awakening, you know, Eckhart Tolle talks about a lot. So, you know, you're the same, Andrew. I can't stress how important it is to me. and probably it's the thing that I reflect on every week more than others. AP (42:49.49) Gary, I have one question because it's actually something I'm dealing with currently. It's how do you deal with someone who's super arrogant and you're seeing them all the time? I think this could be a useful conversation. Gary (43:05.586) You know what? Just thinking about it now, this wasn't primed. So somebody's arrogant. I deal with them all the time. You know what? I think it's jujitsu, man. I think it's a, is it jujitsu or judo? You use their energy against them. Is it a keto? Judo, right? Right. So similar, right. But well, they're different. AP (43:19.569) Aikido, yeah. Well, Judo is similar too. Well, it's all the same. Yeah. Gary (43:29.778) A lot of martial arts, you're on the offensive more, right? Where judo, you're transmuting someone's energy. Maybe that's the play. What does that emotional judo look like? Like, how can you take a step back and absorb that energy? You're not meeting it where it is, because if you meet it where it is, it's just gonna continue. It's just gonna continue. People are eventually gonna tire themselves out. People are eventually gonna be sick of hearing themselves. AP (43:37.201) Mm -hmm. AP (43:52.081) Hahaha. Gary (43:57.586) If there's no resistance or there's no validation, if you're just there, you know what I mean? And I think that's the hardest thing for us to do, especially with the assholes or the douchebags or the arrogant people who are really in your face and constantly at it. And you have no choice. You're in a certain construct that you guys have to interact. Like, dude, I'm not saying I do it, but I'm saying if I was the Buddha, I would probably absorb it. What would the Buddha do? The Buddha definitely wouldn't be meeting him or her. where they're at, right? AP (44:29.617) Yeah, okay, I'll let you know how that goes. Gary (44:32.69) Is it one of your workers or your partners or something with the farm? it's a... AP (44:39.471) No, no, no, it's someone like very much like I was maybe 10 years ago. Gary (44:45.234) yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Well, there's a lot of, there's a lot of recognition there. So at least you'll know what you're dealing with. You know what? Absorb the energy. That's my final answer. That's my final answer. Cause it's exactly what I wouldn't do. It's almost like that Seinfeld episode, the Bizarro episode where they do everything the opposite. And George goes, you know what? I'm good. Do everything the opposite. And there's this, there's this, attractive woman at the, at the bar and George goes up to her and he goes, AP (44:48.719) AP (44:52.367) hahahahah Gary (45:15.122) Hi, I'm unemployed, bald, and I live with my parents. And she goes, hi, my name is Lynn or something. And it was, it was classic. So when it comes to ego, yeah, do the opposite. I think, I think that's probably the way to go. so that's it, brother. Look, it's perfect. We're at, I think we gave a good amount of context. We have some things we can chat about and like reinforcing and ending like this. AP (45:26.063) my god. AP (45:33.263) BOOM. Gary (45:44.882) There's no more important conversation like, like this isn't a contest, but I don't think there's any more important conversation. then the humility, there's a healthy amount of ego placing judgment on this, importance of this concept, but you know what? It's, I just know that's going to open up the world to me. So you know what? I'm open for that. And, yeah, on that note, Andrew, you're tip top. Good to go. AP (46:10.287) Thanks, Gary. All good, man. Thanks so much. Gary (46:14.258) All right, brother. Thanks guys. Another episode of quiet, the noise, humility. And again, check out the podcast notes, subscribe, and we're going to be doing these, like I said, every few weeks. So, onto the next pillar next time. Cheers, Andrew. Bye guys. AP (46:29.837) Cheers, Gary. Thanks. Gary (46:33.042) Okay, good. Did you like that one? Okay, so look, I'm gonna leave this room and then I'm gonna, we're gonna come back to a new room. Well, this same studio, so just leave. Okay, I'm gonna leave and I'm just gonna start a new one. AP (46:35.693) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was good.